This #DBcember’s number 18 villain is… NOT Android 18!

Check out the next entry, #17!

Check out the previous entry, #19!

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Cast & Credits


Scott “KaiserNeko” Frerichs

Nick “Lanipator” Landis

Curtis “takahata101” Arnott



Scott “KaiserNeko” Frerichs

Kirran “LordMoonstone” Somerlade



Lawrence “MasakoX” Simpson


DragonBall is Owned by TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. and Licensed by FUNimation Productions, Ltd.. All Rights Reserved. DragonBall, DragonBall Z, DragonBall GT and all logos, character names and distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks of TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. This is nothing more than a parody made for entertainment purposes only.


DragonBall is Owned by TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. and Licensed by FUNimation Productions, Ltd.. All Rights Reserved. DragonBall, DragonBall Z, DragonBall GT and all logos, character names and distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks of TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. This is nothing more than a parody made for entertainment purposes only.

  • Anthony

    Just one question.
    If 18 and 17 weren’t meant to exist at all, who was Cell meant to Absorb?

  • Plectrophenax

    I can’t be the only one who really likes the design of their clothes. Easily among my favourite of the entire series. I would have loved seeing them pose just a *little* more of a threat.

    Well, at least they still got a few moments and weren’t scrapped right off the bat. And at least 17 and 18, as well as 16, were very enjoyable antagonists in their own right.

  • Cane Jackson

    I wasn’t a fan of Dr. Gero and 19, that much, but seeing Vegeta go Super Saiyan was worth it the first time I seen that episode

  • Cyrilskik Republic

    Androids 19 and 20 were the first time that the series genuinely scared me as a kid. I remember how creepy the episode felt, the Z-Fighters waiting around for these soulless machines to show up somewhere in the city, on top of the fact that they were essentially invisible due to their energy being masked. Something about their eyes, and how the music would go silent, an how they would just walk up to people without showing any sign of emotion or anger, or even sadistic glee; just walk up to people, and yank their spinal cords out of their bodies. Not to mention Yamcha, how Gero just shanked him like a crip getting too friendly with a bunch of bloods. I adore the Kai soundtrack for these two’s entrance into the city, and the music for the next few episodes, it just felt so off and creepy and dangerous, (for me) perfectly fitting the vibe that 19 and 20 had created in my head.

  • GreatWyrmGold

    All things considered, it might not be a bad thing that the Android Arc villains were overturned the way they were. We would have had more of the good doctor and his living doll, but we wouldn’t have had Cell—one of the creepiest villains in the franchise. And Krillin wouldn’t have gotten laid, for better or for worse.

  • athroughzdude

    Isn’t the entire cluster fuck part of the Android/Cell saga because of executive meddling?

  • InvaderDJ

    Ah, it’s too bad that 19 and 20 got dinged for their design, I actually liked it when I was younger and it has grown on me more with time. The fact they’re so different is nice. They don’t even look traditionally cool, they’re just an old man and a fat clown in clothes the old man probably thought were cool.

    And the Androids overall are interesting. It’s nice that humans and human creations were such a threat. With all the saiyans, aliens, magic beings and gods in the series, this was humanities’ best fighting machine. I kind of hope Super does something with Androids or humans again.

  • Alex Palo

    19 and 20 looks pretty bad ass to me, i mean, did you see their entrance? Who cares what they’re dress, with what they do in their mere first escene and with these cold look in their eyes they’re more intimidating than most of the other enemies in DB. IMO in some way they fits better the evil/villain character than buggish/alien type enemies. Too bad they were discard so early

  • Karthull

    I like the android and cell saga and all, but I’m glad cell was made the villain of the saga, as as a child I the only thing in all of dbz that ever bugged me was how the hell can these androids POSSIBLY compete with our heroes after they killed the strongest fighters in the universe from an empire faaar more technologically advanced then earth, the super amazing strength and speed of androids with strength of blowing up mountains should have been paramount to the strength of nappa at best it just doesnt make sense that the robots could come anywhere close to a threat by this point. It’d be fine if it just came before the frieza saga.

  • Hanamichi

    the Red Ribbon Army as a whole should make it to the list

  • Rhys Lightning

    I don’t know… I feel Dr Gero derseves a higher slot just for having created the Andriods and Cell.

  • David Weiss

    I wonder if Android 16 will be on their list. I think he might end up somewhere in the top ten since he is far from the typical Dragonball Villian who wants to kill Goku and take over the Earth at least on the later one. He loves nature and is willing to fight against anyone who would threaten the peace like all the good guys would. Perhaps rather than programming to kill Goku he sees him as a danger to the planet because he keeps making stronger and stronger villains come to threaten it or show them mercy and cause things to end up even worse than if he didn’t choose to hold back and just took care of them. In that sense, maybe Goku will end up being the number 1 villain on the list cause and make Vegeta pissed off at being number 2.

    Vegeta: I can’t even beat Kakarot in the villain rankings and he’s the main protagonist in the series!

    • GreatWyrmGold

      Will 16 be alone or will he be grouped with the twins?

      • David Weiss

        It would depend on the listmaker if they’d want to group them together or not since 16 wasn’t in future Trunk’s timeline, but those Twins were different from the regular Timelime’s ones twins too since they didn’t kill anyone save for Dr. Gero and were just going out and having fun. So in that sense they are similar to 16 in being villains that aren’t just destroying things and killing indisriminately cause they are evil and its in their job description. And both 16 and 18 were both willing to kill themselves in order to try and stop Cell.

  • ramses ijff

    I actually really like the design for dr. Gero, and I’d go so far as to call him the most intimidating-looking Dragon Ball villain. Porcelaindroid 19 though? Yeah, that guy just looks silly. Especially the adorable little spike on his head.

  • michael williams

    People always kinda miss represent that story. To me that said Toriyama more than anything trusted his former editor more than current editor. His former editor had no power other than to tell his opinion to Toriyama. He trusted his editor opinion right or wrong.

    • GreatWyrmGold

      I think it’s more that he trusted his former editor more than himself a few weeks earlier. Or that he took a second look at the androids and realized his former editor was right.

      • michael williams

        He did say he was writing it week to week.

      • GreatWyrmGold

        I’d guess that Toriyama had at least a vague idea of what he wanted 19 and 20 to look like when he had Trunks exposit his future to Goku. That idea changed, but I would be shocked if even Toriyama waited until the last possible panel to decide what he wanted the (intended) main antagonists of the arc to look like.

      • michael williams

        That too. This narrative that Toriyama was forced and could not do his vision is misinformation at best.

      • Kr1spness

        They had interesting and creepy designs, I get why Toriyama made them and they were definitely memorable, but same as with Semi-perfect Cell I think he didn’t spend time refining them and getting a second opinion is always helpful. TBH 17 and 18 have less interesting designs but they work better because of it. They fit more seamlessly and feel less cliche, destroying the world for fun instead of having a singular character trait of evil that defines them.

      • KhruDam

        I think their designs were more original Dragonball, and 17-18 are more DBZ or regular human kinda.

        16 could go either way

  • Ken Krumbach

    You know they could have still made Gero work as a main villain design wise. Just have him merge with 19’s parts ala thirteen and just say he changes into what a younger Dr. Gero would have been. 19 and 20 would have still stayed the main focus and Gero could have still looked threatening as a main villain in Dragon Ball. They could still keep cell in maybe at first he seems loyal to Gero but when Gero’s guard is down Cell absorbs Gero and becomes Perfect Cell that way instead.

    • Matthew Hill

      This is a perfect idea for what could’ve happened. I like the idea mostly because it lets Dr. Gero stay in control of things for a little while longer. Could’ve had 17 and 18 too, and just used them the same way you suggested using 19. Or made them more like 8 or 16. Could even still have had 16 and 18 make the impact they had on the series by making Gero’s absorption work like Cell’s, where the other Androids were still actual beings.

  • Michel van der Linden

    The hand through yamcha’s chest was unsettling? Dude, in the manga, that guy in the car gets his HEAD TORN OFF. Not just strangled, or his neck broken,no.. TORN OFF. There’s your unsettling, right there.


    • Fiere

      I also remember when Gohan killed cell jrs guts were everywhere

    • Xman321

      Actually, I thought what happened was they he literally popped the head off, crushing the man’s neck until it could no longer support the head. Jesus…

      • DiZ

        Is that really any less disturbing?

  • Jack Shomo

    Hey TFS, had an idea for Broly abridged, when he goes LSSJ, you NEED to play the song “Murder Train” from How I met your mother, that’d be so awesome!

    • GreatWyrmGold

      I’d be shocked if they hadn’t already figured this sort of stuff out by now. I’d be even more shocked if they needed random fans to suggest stuff.

  • DreadKaiser

    Seeing the Primary Villain roll jump around was a nice touch in retrospect

    confused the hell out of me as a kid when I got grounded, missed a few Episodes and came back wondering Who the hell this Green Guy was

  • jim

    it’s not jero gear o it pun name jero is the bastardized american name

  • So does that mean Androids 13-15 are not in the list?

    • DreadKaiser

      If Super 17 didn’t make the list, I doubt they did.
      atleast Super 17 didn’t need to have the dub add a personality and was actually a threat. 13-15 were dismantled the instant they remembered Super Saiyan was a thing.

      though that Spirit Bomb->Super Saiyan was nice

      • DiZ

        And one of the most terrifying looks any DBZ hero has ever put on. I was totally unsurprised by TFS putting an actual skull over Goku’s face for that scene, because that’s exactly what I thought the first time I saw it as a kid.

  • VonCain

    As a child watching Dragon Ball Z back in the day, Androids 19 & 20’s ultimate status as red herrings wasn’t a major upset. Since the heroes had been informed about this threat so far in advance (by a time traveller, no less), I’d assumed there’d HAVE to be some kind of bait-and-switch just because it’d prevent things from being completely predictable. It just made sense from a writing standpoint.

    As I discovered years later, my faith was misplaced. It was just Toriyama writing by the seat of his pants, as ever, and trying to placate both his former editor (Torishima) and current editor (Kondō).

    What I feel was squandered with 19 & 20, however, is that it seemed as though Toriyama was making a very calculated effort to move away from traits that had defined the Saiyan and Frieza-focused arcs: they can’t be sensed and – more importantly – can absorb energy attacks. Such traits stymie the escalation of (and over-reliance on) energy blasts post-Raditz and was overall just a smart move to keep things fresh. So much for that, I guess.

    I can’t help but wonder what Toriyama might’ve had 19 & 20 do with all the energy they stole had they been allowed to remain leading villains.

    • Jonathan Crosby

      he could have had 16 17 18 have then aswell if it was something he planed a major event around but as it is i think absorbing gokus energy was the most he had planed

    • Alex Palo

      I can’t agree more with what you said about the Toriyama´s effort. The fight in dragon ball relys a lot in energy attacks, and with this androids disabling those techniques (also the ki tracking), battles in this arc would have been something to remember! but they had to dispach them so easily. such a waste!

    • Dan Tomasik

      We would have had Super Android 17.

    • Jack

      While those are some good points, I cant help but feel like 19 & 20 wouldn’t have much of a role even if they remained as villains. I mean, if they had stayed, what would happen? They’d either beat the Z fighters or they would run from the fight and come back later, but if it’s the latter, how could they still be considered a legitimate theart any longer if they’ve been beaten once? And it’s not like they have any ulterior motive. They simply show up and start killing people without much intent or purpose(not to say its not effective). When 17 & 18 arrive they treat it like a game and want to play by their own rules, like choosing to steal a car and just hunt for Goku like a road trip simply to pass time, so they are more dynamic. Not to mention, 19&20 have no chemistry, either with themselves or other characters

      Really, it does feel like 19 & 20 couldn’t really make it as long term villains. IMO it would have made more sense if they were in fact the Androids in Trunk’s Future(as Toriyama originally intended) but the Z fighters beat them back in their first encounter, which forces them to go back to the lab and wake the other Androids, something Trunks would have no knowledge over nor could have warned them about, rather than just say the time is changing at random

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      • KhruDam

        You say 19 and 20 couldn’t run and come back, but

        Cell had to run and come back. He did have a gimmick to make things more interesting though.

        Yeah it would have made more sense if 19 and 20 were Trunks’ androids.

    • Kr1spness

      17 and 18 held on to the trait of not being sensed and used it well, while Cell held on to energy absorption. My only gripe is that Cell didn’t use that ability to absorb anything other than fallen foes.

  • Michael Johnson

    Their not Best exclusion gave us 17 and 18 so useful for one thing.

  • Sailor Mewni

    Meh…..I can’t really blame his editor for saying 19 and 20 were not good designs. Heck, the decision led to one of the best saga….though I find the Cell Saga being a little overrated, mostly because I just don’t like Gohan much, and much preferred Buu over Cell, as both a villain, character, and saga. The decision to scrap these two and have 17, 18, and Cell was a great move, and made it much more memorable and interesting.

    • Well, the editor meddling did help the Cell saga move forward. He didn’t like 19 and 20, so Toriyama created 17 and 18 (and 16). His editor thought they were just two punks when on paper; so Toriyama introduced Cell. His editor didn’t like that really either, so then came the concept of him transforming into Perfect Cell… and only then was the editor satisfied.
      And honestly, I didn’t mind the constant shift of “who’s the real threat?” It kept us on our toes the first time we watched it, since nothing was as it seemed.

      • A Name

        Dr. Mashirito was a good editor, he had a good sense for story telling and design.

      • DreadKaiser

        now if only all meddling Editors and Execs were as good…

      • When people talk about editors, this is one of the only good stories that comes up… with GOOD reason.
        Bleach’s Kubo Tite hated every editor that was assigned to him and he openly stated his dismay for editors multiple times throughout the running time of Bleach. Don’t forget he’s Japanese and saying bad things about other people is almost a big no-no over there.

      • Efrain Julian De Jesus

        So good that he broke Toriyama to the point where he doesn’t want to do anything anymore and kept meddling with other creators.

      • laxpro

        While coming up with Cell, he talked to his good friend Araki, who was writing Echoes into JoJo at the same time

      • Tyrfing42

        I might have preferred it end at 16/17/18, and maybe not escalate all the way to Cell. I feel like doing that too much messed with the consistency of the writing. Cell’s introduction certainly screwed up the consistency of the time travel that had been set up, and gave us the weird bits with the repeated use of the hyperbolic time chamber (with its not well explained 2 person rule), and the kinda random jumps in power where characters get boosted to strongest ever and then immediately surpassed again (even moreso than Namek). There are some good parts, but I consider Cell the weakest writing of Z both as a character and a saga, and wonder if those good parts might have still remained without him.

      • GreatWyrmGold

        I’m not sure how Cell influenced the consistency of time travel. Unless you’re questioning the idea of Cell and Trunks both ending up in the same timeline, which can be explained by certain timeline models.

      • Tyrfing42

        If Toriyama wasn’t originally planning to have Cell, then there would have simply been the 2 timelines. Cell showing up complete changed that, with an explanation eventually having to come up in a DB encyclopedia that settles on there being 4 timelines, none of which can still explain why Cell ended up going back one year before Trunks first showed up (3 years before his introduction), if he used the time machine that was set by Trunks to go back and celebrate the defeat of the androids.

        And then Super happens and messes with the timelines even further, but that’s getting off topic.

      • GreatWyrmGold

        They add extra timelines, but there’s a consistent (if more-complicated-than-needed) model which fits the events well. There are several independent timelines, and Cell and Trunks go from one to another. “Multiverse theory’s a bitch.”

  • n_dani

    First! 😀