It’s that time of year again!  Join us as we count down our Top 24 Dragonball Villains!

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Cast & Credits

VOICES

Scott “KaiserNeko” Frerichs

Nick “Lanipator” Landis

Curtis “takahata101” Arnott

 

WRITTEN BY

Scott “KaiserNeko” Frerichs

Kirran “LordMoonstone” Somerlade

 

EDITING

Lawrence “MasakoX” Simpson

 

DragonBall is Owned by TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. and Licensed by FUNimation Productions, Ltd.. All Rights Reserved. DragonBall, DragonBall Z, DragonBall GT and all logos, character names and distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks of TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. This is nothing more than a parody made for entertainment purposes only.

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DragonBall is Owned by TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. and Licensed by FUNimation Productions, Ltd.. All Rights Reserved. DragonBall, DragonBall Z, DragonBall GT and all logos, character names and distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks of TOEI ANIMATION, Ltd. This is nothing more than a parody made for entertainment purposes only.

  • JR

    is 3,2 and 1 not working for anyone else?

  • Robin Thrush

    It’d be funny if that ultra divine water and any other mystical buffs Goku received in DB are the reason he’s able to advance so far beyond Vegeta and any other Saiyan really despite his low class heritage. Yes, I know the theme’s supposed to be about how hard work is what’s important, but that’s severely undermined by Saiyans in general and transformations.

  • Cane Jackson

    cool

  • Trent

    I should really watch the original Dragon Ball at some point…

    • Brian Rodriguez

      You should.

  • Grimgnaw

    Why do you call Goku “Gokoo”

    • Japanese pronunciation.

      • Grimgnaw

        They pronounce it Gokuh if I’m not wrong, not Gokooooo 😛

  • Balmung6

    Slightly confused here – I thought Piccolo was King Piccolo, reincarnated – as he outright said that during the World Martial Arts Tournament where he reappeared, and even had a transparent image of King Piccolo over himself the first time he spoke to Goku, leading me to believe that Piccolo wasn’t so much King Piccolo’s son, so much as King Piccolo himself, reborn and revamped.

  • Reptillor

    Watch the worthless piece of crap that is Vegeta make it in 2 or 1. His character is run of the mill and boring as all hell who like a light switch goes from “Rawr I am evil.” to “Rawr I am asshole.” “Now I am good guy… fear me Rawr.” No development just a mood swing. At least Piccolo took time with the innocent Gohan to change him, Vegeta held no care for his child until *BAM* all of a sudden caring. Honestly the fact he is in the top 20 surprises the hell out of me but shows just pure biased opinion. I mean in the Saiyan saga he accomplishes nothing but sitting around ordering Nappa, until his fight where he still accomplishes nothing and then retreats allowed to live cause Goku has brain damage.

    • Saumil Padwal

      Yeah this comment just shows how being you are. Everything Vegeta is pure entertainment

  • Royal Conquest

    So Freeza will be number 1, I would have to think. No way is Vegeta a better villain than Freeza. Better character? Yeah that’s an argument but not villain.

  • Rafael Pereira

    vegeta is not on the list, he failed to kill anyone in the sayan saga and he didn’t kill any hero in the freeza arc, he is only dangerous when he let other villains power up. We all know Monster Carrot is the #1

  • Bruce Wayne

    I 100% agree. Now the moment we’ve all been waiting for, will #1 be Vegeta or Freeza?

  • Craxnor

    #1 will be the greatest villain DBZ has ever known.

    ALL HAIL APUL!

  • Trundle

    I really don’t get TFS problem with the Ultra Divine Water as a plot device. As far as powerups in the series go, its easily one of the best. Here’s my argument.

    Where with the HTC & Gravity training for namek, they’re just that: training. They’re intense and cool sequences but in a way as a viewer you’re kind of antsy to get to those fights. They’re just places to put goku while the other characters get the snot beaten out of them by the big bad. Yes, that is also what happens while goku gets the Ultra Divine water, but hear me out.
    To beat KP who was the first to have such a huge and overwhelming presence & palpable evil that set the standard for literally every subsequent major villain in the franchise, goku can’t beat him by just training. No, that won’t cut it here. The series made an entire sub-arc bursting with tension, terror, and mystery centered around the UDW. He has to go on a perilous quest in a riveting mystical landscape that challenges him to the peak of his limits, has to resist the temptation of the false Elysium(AKA the illusionary kame house with all his friends alive and happy, a touching and heartbreaking dilemma that doesn’t involve punching something and carries a level of complexity never seen before or since in the series), the unrelenting terror of his fight with Demon Roshi, and finally, the pool and mysterious scary being in the Ultra Divine lake itself, not to mention the suspense built around drinking the nigh-lethally poisonous water itself that goku must overcome in order to not only get stronger but just SURVIVE.
    TLDR: Instead of just a training montage we are treated to a suspenseful, scary, complex, and unrelentingly dark mini-arc that culminates in one of the most badass scenes in all of Dragon Ball. (AKA Goku one-shotting Drum like it ain’t nothing and giving KP the death-stare. Riveting the first time I saw it. ) So, to close, with all of that said, what in the hell is there not to like about the UDW Subplot and power-up.Imo those are some of the absolute best episodes in the KP arc which is widely considered the single best arc In dragon ball.
    For all reasons above, this is one ble of the very few things dragon ball where I respectfully completely disagree with TFS.
    -Trundle’s humble opinion.

    • Deecks

      I think they mostly refer to its manga counterpart, where it’s basically Korin going “oh hey I have this magic water that if you drink it makes you super duper strong.”

  • goombacrusher

    Also he created his own holiday.
    Remember to celebrate Piccolo Day every May 13th, people!

  • Ramsay Bolton

    The lad who says “gokuuuu” is doing it on purpose and this video has the tell, as he says his name normally one time.

    • Royal Conquest

      I dunno I think Kaiser does say it on purpose but I also think it’s because he thinks that’s the right way to say it. Kaiser’s a bit of a weeb lmao

  • Sky Bento

    i was right again!, down to the comments they made. next up Vegeta, then Frieza

  • Chris Litwin

    So all that leaves for taking the top 2 are Vegeta and Frieza. Well, unless the guys decide to pull a fast one and decide to use Aba and Cado from the special or even say Goku of all people is the series greatest villain, just tot punk us.

  • Alex Palo

    What? 3th?? I call this BS with Vegeta and Frieza you never felt the despair that you felt when king Picollo took over.

    Vegeta was just siting there meanwhile Napa was doing all the job. Yeah, he managed to survive the Genki Dama(just as Frieza, Kaio-Sama has a lot to explain here) but, after fighting Goku he’s not seeing as a villane anymore, most like a chaotic character until he group up with the good guys, so as a villain his career ends there.

    With Frieza, maybe is because is not the Earth, but is not like King Piccolo’s saga where you see all the world falling apart and you don’t have anywhere to hide. Is more like ”We’re all here waiting for Goku to saves the day”, and it is what it happend at the end. Yeah, he destroyed Namek, but magical dragon spheres, you know?

    Meanwhile with King Piccolo is the first time in the franchise that you see the good guys running out of chances to win. He actually defeated Goku(he died! nobody explain how his heart starts to bombing again), and had everyone else hiding meanwhile he was chassing his wish, thing that he finally got after master Roshi’s sacrifise and sealing all this killing Sheng Long, taking with him the chance of bring back to life all the fallen ones.

    For me King Piccolo is 1st, Frieza 2nd and Vegeta has nothing to do in top 5.

    • alexandre

      Yes but hindsight hurts piccolo hard
      He kills the dragon, Kami and popo resurrect the dragon, everyone king piccolo killed is back and they didn’t need to use two shenrons before the planet explode.
      And he knew it would happen since he is half kami

  • Taher

    “Hail o the King, Baby”
    Does that mean the next one isn’t Vegeta but Baby Vegeta? Foreshadowing, eh? Nice.

  • Invader_Jim

    Can’t say I agree with KP ranking below Vegeta but whatever.

  • Derek Clapton

    Vegeta absolutely deserves to be #1 because his redemption arc isn’t so direct. It’s sloppy as hell and he still does fucked up shit well after he joins the heroes. Including threatening to kill Goku constantly. A lot of the evil things he does are certainly smaller in scale than Frieza in the diagetic world, but as a viewer they’re infinitely more serious because in addition to being evil, they’re heartbreaking. Frieza does stuff that makes you outraged, but you’re never straight up disappointing in him. We all know Frieza’s evil, so when he does something evil it’s purely expected. Vegeta has good in good in him so when we see him be terrible to Trunks or sell his will to Babidi it’s more crushing, even if the actual impact isn’t as destructive.

    Also we actually do get to see Vegeta’s origins which fleshes him out in a way not a lot of villains get period. Frieza’s born strong to a cosmic tyrant, is entitled, continues in that path, and that’s basically it. Vegeta’s very similar, except he’s constantly under Frieza and Co’s foot. We actually see where his trademark arrogance and rage comes from. He’s one of the only characters in the franchise that is more than just evil for evil’s sake. And that makes him such a more compelling villain (as well as lays a framework for him to actually develop over the series).

    • alexandre

      compelling character but if he was a good villain he wouldn’t have the chance to disappoint that much since they would have simply killed him or exclude him of their group, that they don’t make it look like they don’t see him as a villain but just some guy they tolerate for x reasons (father of trunks, goku shows mercy, bigger villains to deal with). Fleshing out his background doesn’t make him a better villain as much as give him a reason why he can redeem himself, which is not a villainous quality since we know that if we remove freeza an co, humble him a bit he can be a hero while freeza would be a villain no matter what you do
      Also I didn’t like how at the end of Cell saga he vows to never fight again after Trunks get killed except that’s thrown out of the window and he redoes the same stuff he did in the Cell saga that again explains why the group shouldn’t hang with him

      • Derek Clapton

        I hear ya, but I also completely disagree with pretty much all your reasoning, sorry. I don’t think just being irredeemably wicked with no background as to why they’re like that translates into a strong villain at all. To me that would put folks like Hirudegarn and Janemba and other non sentient beings at the top of this list.

        I will admit that sometimes it does feel like every one is unnaturally buddy buddy with him. For a guy who has orchestrated the deaths of many of the main cast and still regularly threatens kill Goku, they often treat him as just a shitty roommate. It could be done better. But that shortcoming writing wise I feel is pretty minor in the long term.

      • alexandre

        It’s not that they can’t have a background it’s that if they have one it’s better be about them being villain and not victims of someone else, Freeza has a background of a galactic emperor/businessman who enjoys what he does who take planets and moves people everywhere in a quest for ruling the universe. he has a reason for what he is doing but even without them he would still murder people since to him, not his saiyan blood or being made of evil namekian, it’s the satisfactory part of his work.
        Like I get people want complex villains with more depths than enjoy the villainy but sometime it just removes the villainy and it’s people with different viewpoints opposing each other which makes good story but not about a hero and a villain

    • Jack

      I think Vegeta’s redemption arc works against him here. This is a list of top 24 villains. Villains, not characters. If were a list of best characters, Vegeta is up there no question, but at some point he stopped being an outright villain and became more of an anti hero. Frieza is hailed as the best villain in all of DB, and he in way set off the chain of events that lead to the whole series. If the Sayians never worked for him, then Goku would never have been sent to earth in the first place

  • Chuck Aitchison

    #1 is Lord Popo maggots, get it right.

  • Kaliaila

    I think that they should rename this list the Top 24 Antagonists as opposed to villains. Vegeta being ahead of King Piccolo would make some sense then.

  • Pablo09

    I’d add that the egg tossing, the drinking without a straw and sleeping with eyes open made him that much more scary.

  • Hanamichi

    Whoa I totally expected Vegeta here.. he’s next then, I’m interested in seeing what you gotta say about him. I actually didn’t find villain!Vegeta as appealing as some previous ones on this list (Cell, Buu & King Piccolo) in the arc where he was the main villain, but I thought he was THE best villain ever during his stay on Namek (yes, I totally consider him still a villain in Namek).

    Didn’t grow up with DB as I did with Z, I only read the manga in adulthood, and yeah even without the nostalgia I’m def in agreement that King Piccolo deserved a spot in the top 3, easily the best villain in DB. And I’m glad Kaiser decided to separate him from Piccolo Jr because I felt he paled as a villain in comparison to his father/previous incarnation, I actually rank the RRA higher than him on this list.

  • JokerJay779

    Wait since he was the evil that Kami purged from himself taking physical form doesn’t that make him a demon from a technical standpoint?

    • Deecks

      Him and his son (along with Garlic Junior) are members of the Demon Clan, which is distinct from a genuine demon like Dabura. Demon Clan members seem to be defined as “deeply evil nonhumans who utilize dark magic.” It’s less a race, more a gang. Yenma mentions after Goku’s death that Piccolo is no longer a demon (since Goku and Raditz went to the afterlife normally, and souls killed by demons can’t do that).

  • sonic10chaosverse

    “ultra bullshit plot device”that’s hilarious

  • Daniel Quinlan

    Saying that Piccolo Daimao isn’t really a demon is like saying that Kami isn’t really a god. Their alien heritage has nothing to do with it.

  • Michael Johnson

    Piccolo’s dad is a dick, buff said.

  • Brandon Booher

    I suddenly feel like I’m the only one that doesn’t think Vegeta is top two. He pushed plot lines and he… I mean don’t get me wrong he totally vaporized a planet of insignificant random aliens, has had an immense impact on the series over all, but when was he truly the villain? Nappa killed more people on earth than he did not to mention the saibaman. Granted I could be totally misremembering as I haven’t watched Z since it aired on toonami way back when, but I don’t think he is top ten material.

    • VandalCabbage

      He’s one villain that Goku couldn’t beat even after using all of King Kai’s techniques. Had Gohan not landed on him, he would have killed the entire main cast and then blown up the planet.

    • Jeremy

      Vegeta is not my favorite villain, but he IS pretty significant. He’s the only villain to undergo real character development except Piccolo Jr. (who wasn’t much of a villain). He serves as one of the best “evil versions” of Goku in that he embodies all the negative aspects of Saiyans and Saiyan culture as well as embracing them fully while Goku still rejects them. His death is what brings Goku around to fully accepting his heritage and embracing something that had clearly been troubling him since the Raditz arc.

      It’s also arguable that he is the main catalyst for everything in DBZ. Raditz works for Vegeta, Vegeta and Nappa kill Piccolo forcing the gang to go to Namek as well as alerting Freiza of the Dragonballs (he is also the vehicle through which the cast, and we, are exposed to Freiza for much of the Namek arc). Freiza’s defeat leads him to come to Earth where he lends his DNA to Cell (as does Vegeta) and, as Trunk’s father, is necessary for Trunks to exist and travel time. Finally his obsession with defeating Goku leads Buu to be released.

      Not all of this was done while he was an outright villain, but if he hadn’t arrived on Earth, most of DBZ probably wouldn’t have happened. Except maybe Cell.

      • Sentsuizan

        Trunks wouldn’t exist so the Cell we know never would have been able to time travel. And Cell would be missing Vegeta’s DNA too.

    • Egg_Runner

      during the buu saga he deliberatly gets mind controlled by bibbidy? or bobidy? i forget which one is which, but he does that just so he can be evil again. and when that does happen hen blasts a big crowd at the stadium

    • Reptillor

      The planet of Arlian was a Filler planet so vegeta accomplished nothing. Remember they judge based impact as villain. The moment Saiyan Saga ended he was Anti Hero. He accomplished nothing as a villain whatsoever. But he is a fan favorite so he is getting the spot. Raditz and Nappa were better villains, the fact neither were revived to try to bring the Saiyans back to power with Goku Reuniting with Raditz to Vegeta and Nappa partnering up to fight Cell, such a waist of some good villains.

  • Lupu

    I agree with tfs’s list thus far but I’m so disappointed that Appule didn’t make it in top 3, he deserve it after all for being the most loyal, mysterious, cunning and frightening villain in the series, you just saw how hard was for Vegeta to kill him, it must’ve been very painful and it was needed a lot of fear resistance and determination to do what Vegeta did to Appule.

  • Jeremy

    Could I just take a moment to point out that King Piccolo is both A) the only villain to achieve ALL of his goals (however briefly) with virtually no setbacks until the very end and B) the only villain (other than raditz) for whom the main cast had a strategy beyond “Hit it very hard”? (Even though that turns out to be what actually kills him).

    He’s also tied for 2nd place in highest main character body count at 3 with Vegeta and Nappa. I know he doesn’t technically kill Krillin (Tamborine does) and Roshi technically kills HIMSELF, but he is directly responsible for both of those. Hell, he beats them if you count Goku’s death in the Raditz fight as his because Piccolo Jr is the one that ACTUALLY kills Goku. The only other villain that kills more main characters is Buu, I think.

    • Jeremy

      The count is, as I remember (please correct me if I’m wrong):
      Pilaf Gang, Red Ribbon Army, Tao: Nobody important
      King Piccolo: Krillin, Roshi, Shenron, Chaitzu
      Piccolo Jr/Radditz: Goku
      Vegeta and Nappa: Tien, Chaitzu, Yamcha, Piccolo
      Frieza: Vegeta, Krillin
      Cell: Nobody?
      Buu: Fuckin’ errybody.

      • VandalCabbage

        Cell killed Trunks and (sort of) Goku, along with Android 16, 17 and 18. The latter three might not count, though.

      • Zack Osbourne

        Cell killed alt. Future Trunks, main Future Trunks, 16 and 17. 18 was rescued after Gohan literally punched her out of his stomach.

        In terms of total body count, it’s a toss up between Frieza, Buu and Beerus.

      • Egg_Runner

        uh i duno, Frieza only killed anyone against him or that was a threat, also he hasnt lived forever, buu has categorically gone from planet to planet killing EVERYTHING! and beerus has existed from the dawn of the universe and killed on a whim so really its between buu and beerus

      • Billy McGee

        Nappa killed those Z fighters, NOT Vegeta. Vegeta did wipe out a bunch of Namekians. Also he blew up that bug planet, but I’m not sure if that was filler.

        Frieza killed all the Saiyans.

        Cell wiped out at least one town of humans. Also, Androids 16,17,and 18. (which are now “good” characters).

      • Woodhouse

        Vegeta wiped out every important member of the frieza gang.

      • Billy McGee

        I’m only noting “good” people that Vegeta killed..so the bug people and the Namekians.

      • RmaFan

        bug people is filller

      • Woodhouse

        Also all the innocent people watching the tenkaichi budokai, only to provoke Goku.

      • Egg_Runner

        but were the bug people good? their entire planet was under tyrannical rule but he killed the ruler… and then killed everyone else

  • David D

    I would have personally had King Piccolo above Vegeta, primarily due to the amount of shit he got done. Vegeta is definitely more influential, but I’m not sure there has been a villain who has accomplished as much as King Piccolo had for the scale and time he did them. The deaths of almost all the main cast was unprecedented, and killing Shenron is one of my favorite moments pre-Z. It was also great in having his own contingency in place with Piccolo Jr. Hard to argue against Vegeta being in the top 2, just for me, the amount King Piccolo got done in his time outweighs Vegeta’s influence and impact, strictly from when he was a villain.

  • Dundore77

    Yeah sorry Vegeta does not deserve a top 3 VILLAIN slot. As a villain he is a henchmen and kinda generic at that. Vegeta is definitely the best character in dragon ball but that’s because he has actual character development and the best development as well

    • Jeremy

      He’s one of the ONLY characters with any real development.

    • Edmund H

      I disagree. He started off as a generic villain in his own saga, was still fairly villainous in the following arc while gaining significant character development, and even in one of the final arcs, where he is supposedly a good guy, goes and kills an entire section of an audience on a whim. He also has a significant impact on the series, acting as a rival for Goku, the father of Trunks, and eventually a full hero in his own right. While he may have started off poorly as a villain, he holds his own overall.

      • Dundore77

        “On a whim” you mean being controlled by Babidi’s power who pulls the evil out of people, remember upon learning this Krillan mentions PICCOLO as maybe not the best choice because “he wasn’t always one of the good guys” despite Vegeta being right next to him, who has done so much more evil things than Piccolo ever did and much more recently. I’m sorry but as a villain Vegeta should not be this high up because he isn’t a villain for majority of the show really after Vegeta kills that village on namek he doesn’t commit another villainous act on his own accord and i don’t consider him a villain after he starts fighting frieza’s top men and imo should be paired with Nappa like they did with the Ginyu force and other groups. Is he impactful and significant to the story abso-freaking-lutely but as a villain he just is a guy who wants immortality/to kill his boss.

  • GreatWyrmGold

    Don’t get me wrong, King Piccolo is definitely one of Dragon Ball’s finest villains. He started every aspect of the series which persisted into Z and brought a definitive end to Goku fighting more-or-less mundane enemies; his impact on the series alone puts him high on the list. He also has a level of pragmatism which is almost unmatched among any Dragon Ball character, hero or villain.
    But his personality…he’s evil, and that’s about it. Don’t get me wrong—he’s entertainingly evil, evil with panache, but he’s still just evil. He does evil so he can do more evil, and promote the doing of evil in others. It’s arguably justified, whether he’s a king of demons or the personification of Kami’s evil, but such justifications don’t make King Piccolo’s motivations any more interesting. In terms of personality and motives, I’d rank King Piccolo below his son, even discounting everything the latter does after the tournament (ie, only counting his time as a villain).

    I guess my standards are different than most Dragon Ball fans’ standards, though, since I find Frieza and Villain!Vegeta to be even more bland and dull.

    • Jeremy

      None of the DB villains are very complex. Piccolo is at least pragmatic and self-aware enough to know what his weakness is and destroy it. Freiza also has more than just bland evil. He has his spoiled upbringing and overwhelming, blinding pride. Neither character has MUCH depth or backstory really as to why they’re evil (Vegeta is definitely a more complex character than both of them put together), but at least they’re better than most of the villains that came before and after them whose motives were often vague or “destroy everything” and whose personalities were: Funny evil, short evil, professional evil, revenge evil, disgust evil, revenge evil, why not evil, why not evil, and it’s fun to be evil.

      • GreatWyrmGold

        And that’s why I don’t like most Dragon Ball villains, and why the ones which break the formula (Baby, Beerus, Buu, Zamas) are all much higher on my personal list than they are on TFS’s.

  • Jeremy

    I think the point of the Ultra Bullshit PlotDevice was that it was basically just poison. The only reason it powered Goku up is because of his Saiyan Zenkai (I think that’s what it’s called) which proc’s when he almost dies. If anyone else had drank it and survived, it wouldn’t have done anything. Of course, that may not have been Toriyama’s intent when he first WROTE the arc because I’m suspicious about how much of the series he had planned out in advance. In retrospect, though, it works.

    • GreatWyrmGold

      It doesn’t really fit with what anyone said about the Ultra BS Plot Device, though.

      • Jeremy

        Yeah. I know. But since nobody has ever SURVIVED it, that could all just be in-universe myths. Korrin claims it’ll power Goku up if he survives it, but that nobody ever has. Even he seems less than 100% sure that’s what will happen, though.

      • Jack

        I doubt Toroyama knew that Goku was supposed to be an alien back then or that he even came up with the full concept of Sayians yet. Also, the anime mentioned the water being poisonous, but in the manga, Korin already had it and simply gave it to Goku without much trouble. Not sure if I remember correctly but it didn’t seem to be deadly in the manga

      • Deecks

        Nah, it’s mentioned there, too. Korin basically claims that it works on the “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” principle.

  • RandomShinigami7

    As much as I love King Piccolo, I can’t really argue about him being lower than Vegeta and Frieza. In terms of pure villainy, Frieza just manages to top him. I mean sure, King Piccolo can destroy cities for fun. But Frieza destroys whole planets without a second thought. And as for Vegeta, well he has more character development going for him. Possibly the biggest character development in the entire series.
    So yeah, I love King Piccolo, I think he’s a fantastic character and by far the best villain of OG Dragon Ball. But even I wouldn’t place him above Vegeta and/or Frieza.

    • Jeremy

      I think the only difference between Piccolo and Freiza in terms of villainy is really scope. Piccolo would probably have been just as terrible as Freiza if he’d had the power and knowledge of the galaxy (and those that dwell there) that Freiza does. Just because someone is weaker, doesn’t make their personality any less villainous. If anything, Piccolo surpasses Freiza in that regard by being self-aware enough to know he has a weakness and to systematically destroy those who could exploit it. I guess Freiza gets a pass at first for that because his weakness turns out to be “hit it harder” and nobody had ever been able to hit him hard enough to be a threat before. Once it becomes apparent that Goku CAN hit him hard enough, though, he still refuses to accept it.

      Oh, and I guess Frieza’s other weakness was laziness because he never trained in his final form so he ran out of energy super fast or some bullshit thing like that. Idk. King Piccolo is the last DBZ villain (except Raditz) that is dealt with through means other than “Hit it very hard”

      • Lupu

        Yes, but him getting soooo strong over 3 or 4 months is just a plot hole that Toriyama came up with just for the purpose of a movie where Goku fights with frieza again. Back on the namek saga, that ability with Frieza getting so stupidly strong wasn’t actually a thing. IMO it was just a poorly method of making Frieza as strong as Goku SSB, and it was horribly executed.

      • Fiere

        you mean when he kept saying he was holding back and dragon Ball villains don’t really train, so its very possible.

        besides the humans surpassed goku and raditz doing the same training goku did for 3 so it’s nothing new.

      • alexandre

        It’s mostly because they never developed the whole Planet Trade Organization part of him as not only he does genocide for fun but because it’s his job. He doesn’t just have an empire he has trade with other people maybe as twisted as him for planets and his hold over the galaxy while never shown can reach the gods, some who could defeat his clan so there is some politics that we are never shown but since people refer to freeza over king cold he seems to be the one in the middle of a galctic expansion.
        Plus hitting him harder wasn’t the only problem, hit him hard, resurrect everyone on namek by rule lawyering wish teleport everyone on Earth safe him and trying to flee before the planet explode. It wouldn’t be until the buu saga where they exploit the shit out of the dragon balls like that and it’s because Freeza was really screwing with their plan

  • TactilePope

    PIKKORO DAIMAO

  • Lavaros

    I’m honestly surprised at Piccolos placement, opinions and all that but while he’s certainly top ten material. Top 3… eh, can’t agree. But I see why you placed him so high, he did for better or worse shape all the villains to come after him and that’s an impact that simply can’t be ignored.

  • dogsrule29295 .

    you’re dumb and wrong

    • Sailor Mewni

      I know you are

      • dogsrule29295 .

        🙂 I’m just saying what Kaiser tweetedd

  • lordlaharl

    I’m curious for who gets the number one spot. On the one hand, Frieza/Freeza had a long and more iconic run as an arc villain than Vegeta did, but on the other hand, Vegeta’s whole tenure as part of the main cast could be seen as a more fleshed out version of Piccolo (Jr)’s transition from villain to hero, since while his motivations gradually shift from immortality to simply fulfilling his Saiyan drive to be the strongest to simply coveting his lost villain cred, his role as a near-villainous anti-hero with a shaky alliance with the rest of the cast leads to a greater amount of character conflict than a number of other characters throughout the series or even characters in other series that try to ape his schtick.

  • Doortothe

    Someone really likes alliteration

  • Stache Hand

    Taka: “Hail to the king, baby.”

    Some green bipedal hedgehog: “You addressed me?” (gets literally roasted by a Bakurikimaha)

    • JokerJay779

      It’s alright I like Scourge too.

  • StephenRFC

    “Hail to the King baby”

    Now onto the Prince.

    • William “LEGOMania27” Breen-Ha

      Eey, I get it.

    • B-but which prince? I need to know!!!

    • Viredae

      You never know, it could be daddy’s little princess.

  • BlueMageBrilly

    Incoming the biggest villain of all: Pride, and I don’t even mean just Vegeta.

  • Turkey Vulture

    While I’m disappointed that King Piccolo, my personal favorite Dragon Ball villain, ranked lower than Vegeta, I can see why he did; overall, King Piccolo had much less of an impact, with much of his legacy being taken into the hands of the separately-ranked Piccolo Jr. Still, despite Vegeta carrying a heavier role in the rest of the series both firsthand and indirectly, I feel that King Piccolo had a lot more strengths as a villain, mainly because he was easily one of the most cunning/clever villains I’ve seen, both in Dragon Ball and in any work of media in general; hell, only Yoshikage Kira from JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable rivals King Piccolo as my favorite villain in a work of fiction.

    • Jeremy

      He’s the only villain that really gets shit done. The only one to actually achieve all of his goals. He got his youth and he took over the world. Briefly, sure, but moreso than anyone else has done. The Red Ribbon army and Freiza get CLOSE to their goals, but never quite make it there. Cell achieves his perfection, but then decides his new goal is to destroy all life in the solar system. Buu blows up Earth, but to be fair, that’s more of a byproduct of his nature than an actual conscious goal.

      • Carlos Medina

        actually in Super Zamasu achieved his goal of having all mortals killed when Zeno destroyed that universe

      • Turkey Vulture

        Zamasu didn’t kill ALL mortals, since the main cast was still alive.

      • WD

        Nor did Buu, actually. Even after blowing up the planet, he still failed to kill Vegeta, Goku, Shin, Mr. Buu and Mr. Satan, The onlyu reason Gohan, Goten and Trunks died was because Goku was an idiot and thought Mr. Satan was more important.

        Zamasu failed to kill the main cast because they had enough strength left to project barriers. They BARELY managed to escape when Zen-Oh destroyed the universe.

      • blarghman

        technically his mission was to kill everyone in that timeline which he did, since the main cast had left that timeline in order to survive since it was destroyed

      • Egg_Runner

        well Zeno didn’t destroy that universe, just the planet Zamasu was on

      • Mr. A

        king piccolo ruled earth for a week, frieza ruled the galaxy for decades…

    • GreatWyrmGold

      I’d argue that King Piccolo’s impact on the series was greater than any other character, save Goku and maybe Bulma. Everything that made Z distinct from the original Dragon Ball started here—the focus on high-stakes fight scenes, the move away from mere humans as opponents, the mid-arc-power-up-focused plot advancement, the per-arc reset-button wishes…everything.

  • Xavier Ortiz

    I would have put Piccolo at #1, but I’m glad he got a place in the top three AND above Cell. The only big bags left are Freeza and Vegeta, but who will reign supreme. My bets are on Vegeta because he’s had further development than Freeza ever did.

    • Joey Walker

      one problem with that, vegeta ends up being a good guy(more or less) after the namek saga

      • Lupu

        No, he was still a bad guy during the Android saga, he still wanted to kill Goku and after that he could just simply left the planet or maybe destroying it. He joined witth he z warriors on the same reason why he joined with them against Frieza. And don;t forget Majin Vegeta which still it was his decision to become evil once again, he had the power to oppose Babidi’s control, but he actually embraced it.

  • HikaruYami

    I think everyone knew the top 3, in order, as soon as you said that Piccolo and King Piccolo had different slots on the list.

  • Ken Krumbach

    Goku willing to drink poison to stop a demon/alien from taking over the planet is bad. Yet Goku being a whiny bitch that he didn’t earn his god powers to beat a cat god and stop him from destroying the planet is ok. I swear the Dragonball fandom makes no sense sometimes.

    Also I think King Piccolo’s evil was explain from the fact that he was all the negativity Kami experience when they split..

    • GreatWyrmGold

      You’re looking at different parts of the fandom. Plenty of people think that the god power-ups are stupid.
      (And Goku himself complains about how he didn’t earn his god-powers, how it’s not really his strength.)

    • Lord Meezus

      Well the difference is, one could have killed him if he didn’t have enough strength to withstand the water. So in a sense, it was a mini training session and remember Goku doesn’t fight to win but to test himself and push his limits. The other one is a sense of power that is due from a ritual and not actually training for it. There was no way he could test his powers to become this God. And I like that. Goku has always been about getting strong on his own and only takes help when absolutely needs too. Hence why is more open to Fuse then Prince of all 4 saiyans. People are gonna complain about it but it’s not gonna change the fact that one, it’s Goku, and 2, He’s going to do what he can to protect his friends and get a good fight. Also, just like Vegeta, Goku could have changed. Realizing that how powerful he’s become he doesn’t need to drink some holy water anymore or sit in front of some old guy for a day. He doesn’t for himself.

    • VandalCabbage

      The problem with the water is Doyleist not Watsonian; people don’t like it not because Goku was wrong to drink it (it was the right decision) but because it came out of nowhere story wise. Korrin had mentioned in the Red Ribbon arc that the water was just normal and that it was the training to steal the water that Goku did that made him powerful; because magic water that makes you buff is silly.

      Now the same thing is repeated except now there is water that magically makes you buff. It’s the same thing repeated vertibam except missing the point of the original.

      • Deecks

        Also, because it was pretty flatly obvious that it only happened because Toriyama had written himself into a corner and couldn’t think of a way that Goku could get strong enough to close the gap between him and King Piccolo.

  • mk

    King Piccolo will always be number one in my heart. :'(

    • Lupu

      As for me will be Cell. We all have our favorites, and even if they don;t deserve their official number one spot, that doesn;t mean that we can;t think about them being the best, we all have our favorites, and a simple top list won’t keep us far from loving them less.

  • Blue

    “spitting out more children than an Irish Catholic rabbit” that is actually a terrifying thought.

  • Jack

    You know, this process of elimination thing kinda ruins some of the fun of DBcemeber since we can already guess what’s coming next. Next year do something that’s less of a best to worst scenario and more of a box of chocolate deal, like you did with the Iconic moments. That one had the most surprises in it

    • Sailor Mewni

      I am hoping for top 24 fights or characters

  • Sailor Mewni

    Next is Vegeta and we all know what #1 will be. The Saibaman that killed Yamcha!

    • Joel Vincent Coppadge II

      I know right? Never has there ever been a villain like that Saibaman that “yamcha’d” yamcha! 😉 😉

    • Shinard

      Less sure, actually. I think Frieza might actually be #2. Hear me out:

      Look at the reasons King Piccolo was bottom of the top 3 – no motivation beyond “be evil”, and minimal impact on the series after (because Piccolo Jr. was ranked separately). Well, in terms of impact on the series it’s arguable. Frieza is responsible for transformations, Namekians and Super Saiyans, which kinda sets the tone ever after, but Vegeta is one of the most enduring characters in Dragonball. I honestly couldn’t call that one. But in terms of motivation, Vegeta utterly destroys Frieza. Frieza is as standard as they come – he wants to become immortal and rule the universe, cool, good for you. Vegeta wants immortality, sure, but it’s implied that he wants it so he can gain the power to defeat the villain who destroyed his race. He has the same lust for battle as Goku, but without the honour and compassion. And his pride is a really interesting factor – a man raised from birth to believe he’s superior, forced to fight someone he believes is beneath him. All this really highlights the best aspects of Goku. The gradual evolution into a neutral figure as he grows to respect Goku is a much more interesting character arc than Frieza’s, and is one of the best villain redemptions in the series.

      Personally, I wouldn’t put Vegeta in the top 3 – for me, he doesn’t do enough as a villain to earn that spot, and he’s hardly the most iconic villain in Dragonball even if he is one of the most iconic characters. But if he’s in the top 3, I guess I must have overestimated his flaws, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s number 1.

      • Jeremy

        I made this argument in another post, but Vegeta is directly or indirectly responsible for: Raditz, Piccolo’s death and the trip to Namek, Freiza learning about the Dragon Balls, Freiza coming to Earth, part of Cell, Trunk’s arrival on Earth, Cell’s perfect form, and Buu being released. So, essentially, the ENTIRETY of DBZ.

        While his actions during the Cell Saga were not purely villainous (just short-sighted and petty), pretty much everything else he does during his initial villain appearance or his relapse during the Buu arc. Sure, he was mind-controlled but he LET that happen and was definitely being a villain while it was going on.

      • alexandre

        Yes but it’s mostly based on one thing that lessens him as a villain character: Goku and co don’t see him as a villain.
        Like King piccolo and Tambourine were the first villains Goku really wanted dead, Cell pushed Gohan over super saiyan 2, Freeza was the go to guy when they needed a villain to reference in future arc and movies (gohan needing to get angry in the time chamber and supreme kai using him as an example of how buu was above him in terms of threat) and Goku was unhappy about helping him while he was dying, while he threw senzus at Vegeta even after the majin bit. Even the androids got their comeuppance by future Trunks.

        But Vegeta gets to be responsible of all of this because the z warriors gives him chances and power ups (the cell arc would have been over if they simply said fuck you Vegeta you don’t get a turn since you’re a villain) for no good reasons other than they don’t see him as a villain anymore.

      • Royal Conquest

        Nah Freeza is responsible for all of that by proxy. If Freeza had not destroyed Planet Vegeta the entire series would not have happened.

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      • Jeremy

        It’s arguable whether I’d rank him above King Piccolo and Freiza, because most of his character development occurs AFTER he changes sides and most of his impact on the series’s plot is subtle enough that it’s hard to notice, but I definitely think he’s top 5, probably top 3 based on his impact on the plot.

      • Shinard

        I completely agree. But I kinda think if he’s above King Piccolo, he’s probably above Frieza as well. In my opinion, he could only be above King Piccolo if they include his later character development, or at least all of his Namek saga development, and if they include that then I’d put him above Frieza. Oh, and the plot development angle’s interesting, hadn’t considered that. Hell, Trunks wouldn’t exist at all without Vegeta. He really does impact on all of DBZ, doesn’t he?

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      • Aron Örn Jónasson

        Honestly. As a character Vegeta is easily one of the top 2 iconic characters, only beaten by Goku the main protagonist of course. And Vegeta had a pretty good run as a villain. He was the main antagonist in the saiyan arc, had one of the best fights in the entire series there and was still a antagonist force wether as a villainous 3rd party or a anti-hero up until his sacrifice in the Buu saga. However, after the saiyan saga Vegeta was never the primary threat anymore and was often beaten over and over again by the main antagonists of corresponding arcs to emphasise how bad and strong they were. As a villain there is no one like Vegeta but he became less of a threat as the series went on honestly. He will always be arguably the best character in the series of course but that’s not what this list is about. Or else I am gonna have a quite a beef with TFS for placing Piccolo jr. so low on the list.

        Freeza on the other hand, is the very gold standard of what you’d expect of scary villains in Dragon Ball. As a galactic overlord he ruled over god who knows how many planets and solar systems and ruled them all with a cruel iron fist, had a gigantic army at his disposal that our heroes continiously struggled to beat and just could not die when our heroes finally fought him. Freeza was also the one who was largely responsible into making Vegeta into what he was. Granted, the saiyans rule probably would have turned Vegeta into entitled prick anyhow but Freeza exterminated almost the entire saiyan race. Making him the archenemy not just of Vegeta but any saiyan cause Freeza was not gonna tolerate those darn monkey’s existence anymore. The guy is pretty much the stronger, more successful version of King Piccolo and if TFS really want to put Vegeta on top I will respect their decision but vehemently disagree with it.

      • Chris Gaudet

        I’d have Vegeta as #2 and Frieza as #1. Frieza HAS to be the #1 villian of all DB… from pre-Dragon Ball where he destroys Planet Vegeta… to his tyranny driving Vegeta to go to Earth for the Dragon Balls, to being the centerpiece of all the hell that befalls Namek, THEN add everything you mentioned… he comes to Earth later which is a pivotal point in the timeline where Trunks arrives, is a vital part of Cell’s biology, as Cell can survive in a vacuum, aside from all his other powers… AND is the only major villian to have two separate arcs in the canon series! Oh, and Frost… yea, Frieza’s influence in the series surpasses all others.

        I don’t see how he isn’t #1. He defines the villian role in Dragon Ball. I know the last two points reference Super, but he is a DBZ villian that encompasses the entire series… so there you go.

      • Dan Tomasik

        He blows up planets, murders Namekian villages, beats up children, gives no regard to collateral damage when hunting an opponent, and blows up a stadium to get Goku’s attention. Vegeta definitely has a lot of blood of his hands and earns his spot as a villain.

    • disqus_VuE49MAGC4

      Yep, tooootally the Saibaman, how can anything ever beat that?!!?
      the way he just annihilated Yamcha in such a horrible, twisted, and depraved manner…
      Never before nor after has such a villainous villain existed ..

  • Gintoki

    I really hope Vegeta will be number 1, but I think it will be Frieza. Still, a great list either way.

    • VenomMelendez

      Freeza did more as a villain than Vegeta ever did though.

      • Gintoki

        I agree, Frieza is more iconic and Vegeta’s role as an anti hero is much bigger than his role as a villain. But on the other hand, the fight against Vegeta was a much more hard earned victory for the heroes. The heroes literally used everything they had, everything was on their side but they still barely managed to win (if you could call that a win). Frieza did benefit from the mistakes of the heroes (like letting him transform etc), although not nearly as much as Cell and Buu. Also, Resurrection F really took a lot away Frieza’s character. We’ll see tomorrow I guess, either way, I won’t be complaining.

      • alexandre

        Depends on where you think Vegeta stopped being a villain. Because In the cell saga it looked like once cell is out Vegeta will have his fight to the death with Goku until it went out of hands, and in the buu saga he wants to go back to be a villain since having loved ones didn’t make him stronger has he thought and only become nice after he knocks goku.
        Because that’s less being an antihero and more a truce between enemies at times

      • Mr. A

        vegeta was considered evil until the end of the series, when his halo dissapeared when they wished back all the non evil ones from the death. that was his redention moment.

      • alexandre

        Yes but when he dies he was supposed to go to hell despite his suicide yet the witch was able to negotiate the same deal as goku who was nice and earned it so I always take not his explosion was the turning point

      • Mr. A

        but that was more because there was a god killing demon on the loose and he was the only one that could fight him with a chance of winning if you take into account all the people in the place.

  • Sailor Mewni

    Thanks for the reason on Tien not making it.

    • Jack

      You know you else never did anything really villainess? Android 16

      • Cephalo the Pod

        To be fair, 16 wasn’t his own entry, he was just lumped in with 17 and 18.

      • Jack

        Yeah, but they don’t get to do much villain stuff either, except for breaking Vegeta’s arm

      • Sailor Mewni

        Yeah, but they left much more impact as villains than Tien did. Seriously I keep even forgetting Tien was ever a bad guy.

      • Jeremy

        Virtually all of Goku’s posse were bad guys to a certain extent when he met them.
        -Bulma was a selfish, shallow bitch (which she still kind of is through the Namek arc, but gets a lot better after that) who was willing to swindle/steal a small child’s prized posession for purely selfish reasons
        -Yamcha was a highwayman who clearly was ok with murdering a child if need be
        -Oolong terrorized villages and stole children
        -Piccolo tried to murder Goku
        -Tien was SUPPOSED to murder Goku (or at least beat the shit out of him for really petty reasons)
        -Vegeta was…vegeta
        -Krillin was a cheater and pretty damn selfish

      • VandalCabbage

        I mean, then they start hanging out with Buu. Really, only Cell and Freeza are irredeemable from the Z-fighter’s point of view.

      • Jeremy

        Oh yeah, I forgot about Buu. Arguably, he was an exception because that was just the part of Buu that was good. He expelled the evil from himself so you could say it was a different character than the Buu that first appeared, but it’s still a good point. Most of the underlings don’t turn over a new leaf, either. At any rate, the claim that Piccolo turning into a good guy was the first instance of Goku’s positive effect on people is a lie. Goku’s incorruptible aura of goody-goodness has positively impacted pretty much every main character, a lot of the secondary ones (mostly in DB), and even some of the lesser villains.

        Of course, he’s also indirectly responsible for most of them DYING (sometimes multiple times), buuuut at least he recognizes that and tries to stop it.

      • VandalCabbage

        Piccolo turning good was more Gohan than anything. Piccolo only joins up because he wants to rule the earth, not destroy it, and he couldn’t beat Raditz on his own.

        Regardless, until Piccolo no-one truly bad joins them. Bulma is grumpy but not evil; Oolong is revealed to have left his captives totally unharmed, and Yamcha… is just a petty thief. I’m not sure about Yamcha, because while he talks a big game at the start he’s far too pure-hearted even early on for me to believe that he’s capable of murder.

        Tien was redeemed not really by Goku but by Master Roshi’s words of wisdom that gradually caused him to reject the Crane school philosophy.

      • Deecks

        Still, even by his time fighting Raditz, Yenma mentioned that Piccolo was, at the very least, no longer pure evil. The previous arc and resulting years of meditation seem to have taken their toll on him.

      • Mr. A

        say that to future trunks

      • AJK90

        They also did mention some of the reasoning for their placement are their future counterparts who are definitely evil in terms of killing nearly the whole cast.

      • GreatWyrmGold

        There wasn’t a Future 16. At least, not an active one.

      • GreatWyrmGold

        Tenshinhan wasn’t even villainous for his entire arc. He started to be convinced that Shen was a dick and Roshi’s group were okay from near the beginning of the arc.

  • Sailor Mewni

    King Piccolo: I am king of all demons…..huh? Who is this Dabura guy?

    • William “LEGOMania27” Breen-Ha

      I’m thinking that, when King Piccolo died, Dabura took his place.

      • Piccolo was a self-proclaimed King of demons, and only on Earth. Dabra was the actual King of the Demon Realm.

    • Pakari

      Duuuuumpliiiiiiiin…

    • David Pasanen

      Didn’t they retcon King Piccolo to be the king of the ‘Demon Clan’ another variant of Namekian? Like how Kami/Guru/Dende are Dragon Clan, and Nail is Warrior Clan?

  • Now the question is, will Vegeta be #1 or will it be Frieza?

    • HikaruYami

      Obviously Frieza.

      • Mr. A

        obviously? i would like to see vegeta as #1, i think that he deserves it more than frieza, vegeta is a better character in my opinion, to tell you the truth, i think that vegeta is the best character in the entire series

      • Andyjoe522

        This isn’t the list of the best characters, this is a list of the best villains. When it comes to Dragon Ball villains, no one is more iconic than Freeza. While Vegeta made a great villain, his role as a character is more defined by his transition into a protagonist.

      • Mr. A

        but that also counts, what i like about vegeta is that he starts as a villain, and is not until the very end of dbz that stops being one. the change is so well done… also he has motives to be evil, he has the goal of revenge towards frieza, then he wants to surpass goku… i am not going to list things here, everybody knows the story already, my point is that frieza, is a very good villain, a great one, he deserves being top 2 and even 1, but at the end of the day, he is king piccolo number 2, only this time is the galaxy and not just earth.

        the story of vegeta is the most interesting one to watch and is the story of a villain that doesnt really want to change, but ends up doing it. i think that he deserves number 1, number 2 is still a very good place for him if tfs ends up doing the obvious thing by putting frieza first

      • VenomMelendez

        Mayb, but he’s not the best villain. Freeza has that in lock.

      • Mr. A

        why? frieza is just evil because he wants to be evil, no reason behind it a all, if you see this video you can see that king piccolo is the same, he is evil, he is a great villain, he is great a being evil, but at the end of the day, he has no reasons to be evil. vegeta is a more complete character. he is also more iconic to the series, he is the second most popular character for a reason.

      • alexandre

        Freeza is from a race so powerful the universe might as well be an ant farm for them to do as they please. Once he gets immortality he would be a god walking the universe.
        That’s one thing that works on freeza’s advantage over Vegeta: the saiyans have a backstory about might make right and other justifications for their villainy, Freeza we don’t know how many of his races exist, where they come from or even what is their name. There is no code or pride to rationalize what him and his family does, it’s just them lording over the universe with Freeza being so sadistic about it King kai knows him by name unlike the saiyans

      • Mr. A

        A villain is not better if he is more powerful or inmortal, nor does he better for being from a mysterious race. Frieza is the standard villain, as i have said, is king piccolo 2.0. Evil because why not?

      • alexandre

        Yes but Vegeta is evil for no good reasons, he could have possibly got what he wanted by talking, he would have had a better chance at being free from freeza if he simply said look there is a space tyrant I need to take out and he might take your world too instead of let’s kill everyone and become immortal. Then he thinks he won’t have time to have his rematch with goku while all he had to do is ask can we spar? And the reason why is not because he is a villain but because space monkey pride, that’s not a good reason to do evil.
        Being so powerful you look at people like insects to torment and want to be immortal so you can do this forever that’s way better villainy than poorly thought out excuse that vegeta has. Because that’s actually being a villain and not a moody asshole, he is not evil because why not he is evil because it’s fun to him to do what he does while hurting people

      • Mr. A

        you are saying that, but frieza could do the same on namek by that reasoning, plus, frieza is not moved by the charateristic pride of the sayans, so is even a worse reason for frieza. vegeta has a reason for not asking for help, his pride doesnt let him ask for help, and all he has known until now is killing and fighting. that is the same reason for not asking to spar with goku, because vegeta cant allow himself to do that. if he ask goku for a sparring match, is like accepting goku as his equal, and that is something that for vegeta is very hard to do. that is the reason why is so powerful when in the boo saga he finally accepts that goku is better than him precisely.

        “Being so powerful you look at people like insects to torment and want to
        be immortal so you can do this forever that’s way better villainy than
        poorly thought out excuse that vegeta has” <- i couldnt disagree more with an statement. again, frieza is evil because he is evil, and he wants to be inmortal so that he can be evil in perpetuity because reasons. vegeta at least has an excuse, and a background that makes him want to be evil.

      • alexandre

        Except freeza wants to kill everyone on Namek too after being immortal because as usually forgotten Freeza’s job is to kill people and sell planets to a highest bidder (something cruelly underdevelopped in the franchise because it opens to a way bigger universe where stringer level races pays for planets provided by warlords) and pride is not a good reason when Vegeta had to swallow a lot of it working with Freeza and isn’t shy about fighting dirty when on the ropes. Plus it’s not even his pride it’s his race’s pride which is less his character and a species trait. Freeza, you remove his pride, he still makes a living off genocide and selling planets, you take away his job, he is still a sadistic shit who likes to lord over the weak.
        A villain doesn’t need an excuse to be evil because to them being evil is part of the fun it’s like having an excuse to like bacon or being vegetarian. Freeza didn’t take the family business that seriously to make his parent proud or because he was starving he did it because he enjoyed his job and wants to do it forever, once Vegeta beats goku or freeza what was his plan? Nothing because it wasn’t him being a villain but a prideful noble who has no real pleasure in being evil so he could have found other way

      • Mr. A

        freeza doesnt sell planets, he buys planets from people like vegeta, or a least that is how i undertand it. vegeta had to swallow his pride because he knew that he was weaker than frieza, he had to work under it to have a chance in the future for revenge, and as soon as a chance appear (dragonballs) he didnt lose a second to bretay him.

        a villain doesnt need an excuse to be evil? you are right, but a villain does need an excuse to be evil if he wants to be a GOOD villain, villains like frieza are all over the place, every guy that kenshiro kills in fist of the north star except the big ones are like frieza, they are evil because they can, nothing more nothing less, and nobody remenbers anything about any of them.

        you and i clearly have different opinions on what makes a good villain, frieza clearly deserves #2 and will probably end up being #1, im not saying that is bad, but frieza is nothing new in the world of villany, he is classic evil without reason. vegeta on the other hand, is a very original character, i doubt that toriyama planed for vegetas story to be like that when he introduced him, but if we focus on the end result, i think that vegeta has the best story in the entire of dragon ball, and is the story of a villain. frieza ends up being killed by trunks and 3 pages later nobody ever mentions him again., while vegeta i easily the second most popular character.

      • Fiere

        it’s not about what frieza was motivated by because a good villain doesn’t need an excuse, evil is never justifiable.

        frieza accomplished things as a villain that vegeta could never do and vegeta is the second most popular character because he is goku’s longest rival.

      • Mr. A

        and i disagree with that statement also, for me a good villain precisely needs an excuse, one of the reasons why villains in one piece are so good is that almost all of them have very good reasons to do what they are doing, even if is evil to do it.

        as for what frieza acomplish… i mean, he was more powerful than vegeta, he was the boss of a planet conquering organization, of couse that he is going to do more things than vegeta, vegeta was an elite soldier at most. but all of that doesnt mean that he is a better villain, only that he had more power to do eviler things. if cell abandoned earth and founded an organizarion similar to friezas, is he automatically a better villain than frieza, since he has even more power? is boo a better villain than frieza because he can acomplish more evil acts because he has more power to do it? to me all that is irrelevant, a villain is not as good as the damage he can do, is the personality, the reasons, the ideas… a good villain is like a good hero, a hero that just does good things without reason is not a good hero, is the standard fantasy hero of one thousand books for kids. a good hero is someone like guts from berserk, a character so complex that we could even argue if he is even the hero of his history.

      • Fiere

        that’s not a villain, that’s an antagonist. villains are evil and evil is never justified. if hitler had a good reason to kill people would you say he is justified?

        if cell had taken over worlds, enslave races, make the entire universe fear him and kill planets, yes he would have been better than frieza.

        A good villain needs to have a reason but not a good reason as in had the story been switched he be the hero. I want to route for the hero and I want to hate the villain and everything he does. not feel bad for him.

        also a good hero needs no motivation, he does good things because it’s the right thing to do. but I guess I see morality in fiction like I do in real life.

      • Mr. A

        Evil can be perfectly justified, being evil is not automatically being wrong, a villain can be making decisions that affect negatively other people lives while pusuing a goal that is actually good for other or even the same people. To me, a good villain is one that has a story behind him suporting his actions, the same that i want from the hero. The stories where the villain in simply evil arent as good as the ones were the villain is also a good character. You can see it also in marvel movies these days, a lot of people like loki, and they like him because he has a background that supports his actions. He is still evil, but his character is developed.

      • Fiere

        the best batman is widely considered to be the Joker and his story is that he just wants to watch the world burn.

      • Fiere

        evil means immoral.

      • alexandre

        Why would he buy from vegeta he was his employee/slave? Raditz said they had a boss for that. Plus freeza was still used as a measuring stick by the supreme kais and goku used him for gohan to get angry about because they know of his infamy, Vegeta was known as the guy who balls it up and live only because Goku would always give him chances to redeem while Freeza got killed after his act of mercy and Goku was clearly not happy about it.
        Like yes they put big villains with sob story in fist of North star but that’s why Jagi is the best in term of villainy, few motivation except jealousy and the hero wants him dead and no one feels bad for it. Yes he gets forgotten since once a villain is killed there shouldn’t be much left to dwell on. Someone whose infamy can’t be justified since they are clearly enjoying it are used as villain everywhere because that’s what a villain is, everything else is just a lame attempt at making the character an on and off antihero

      • Anthony Ward

        maybe Goku will be number 1. hes the reason pretty much everything bad happens so hes like the secret villain haha.

      • GreatWyrmGold

        That’s the obvious choice, but TFS could well surprise us all and put Vegeta at number one.